"I AM" realization, experience...or nothing?

last SG · 2012-11-11T15:25:59+00:00

Hi, welcome to this forum. You described the experience of I AM but not the realization of it. Personally I had glimpses of the experience for over 2~3 years...

BrianEleven SG

"The gap between two thoughts is essence. But if in that gap there is a lack of presence, it becomes ignorance and we experience only a lack of awareness, almost an unconsciousness. If there is presence in the gap, then we experience the dharmakaya [the ultimate]."

http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/122948?page=64

Exactly!

Jui SG

Isn't the dharmakaya experience only after realization of anatta and shunyata though?

BrianEleven SG

I think so. I'm certainly not there yet. The quote just sounds like a description of my current expereince. Minus the dharmakaya part that is. The gap being the moment prior to birth.

An Eternal Now SG

I was just reading some other of John Wheeler's writings and something really struck me. The question "Before birth, who am I?" seems to provide a subtle clue that I just noticed and felt. The "before birth" part is very important. The answer to "Who am I?" is available before the birth of"me" But not my physical birth, the birth of "me" in each moment. If I just rest in the space prior to the birth of "I", that is the answer to "Who am I?" Prior to the mind newly creating "Brian" in this moment(and each moment) what is present is that which has always been present and Who I am. Maybe. I think.

Metta,

Brian.

There is a purpose but Never try to understand what the koan is trying to do. That is one of the few things Thusness told me about self inquiry, he seldom give pointers on the practice. Just inquire until you have doubtless realization, all other conceptualizations are sidetracks. It prevents having a direct touch of your essence.

An Eternal Now SG

Isn't the dharmakaya experience only after realization of anatta and shunyata though?

Based on that quote alone it seems to be pointing out the I AMness aspect. Actually many teachers equate I AMness with dharmakaya. Each to his own understanding. Thusness understanding of dharmakaya is that it is only realized after twofold emptiness are actualized.

BrianEleven SG

Practice is going well, I think.

30 minutes of meditation twice a day, gently resting my attention on the feeling of being. This has become the most stillness inducing meditation I've yet done. If anything arises I just allow it to come and go without taking it seriously(to the best of my current ability).

The off cushion practice of asking "Who Am I?", or "Who is walking/breathing/hearing etc?" is becoming automatic. I seem to be developing a real "itch" to figure out this question of "Who Am I?" it's almost like having popcorn stuck between my teeth, I just can't leave it alone. I've been reading Dr. Robert Saltzman the past few days and he suggests that his students use the pointer "I AM" throughput the day. I've tried it with very similar results to asking the question, I'm drawn right back to the feeling of presence.

I've also been reading some John Wheeler(thanks for the suggestion AEN) and Nisargadatta Maharaj.

Which brings me to a question. It seems that the feeling of "I AM" or presence is part of my daily experience much more often. Especially when I read the pointers of the above mentioned authors. Reading some of this seems to actually create a physical reaction in me, in which I feel very subtly energized, I sometimes get a pressure in my skull(though not unpleasant) and rooms seem strangely more spacious, larger somehow. Is this part of the process? Just wanting to make sure I'm not off track. If this is normal, is there anything I could or should do to help stabilize these times of more intense presence? Or, as I suspect, is it just a matter of allowing this to unfold at it's own pace.

Thanks and Metta,

Brian.

An Eternal Now SG

Sounds good. If you have great pressure, try to relax a bit? Intrinsic awareness is always already so and can never be lost, being the very core of your existence... there is a direct realization which confirms this fact with utter certainty. It is undeniable, inescapable presence-awareness, your very essence. This can be realized through self-inquiry. But complete stability of presence through an effortless way depends on deepening of insights. If you practice like Ramana Maharshi, it is through attaining mastery of samadhi. This however is not necessary and is far from effortless, but for those I AM practitioners it is natural they may think that samadhi of abidance in Self 24/7 is the way to go.

An Eternal Now SG

Also: one of the four aspects of I AM you should look into is 'seeing through and dissolving the need to abide'.

John Wheeler:

"There is no need for 'you' to abide as presence-awareness at all. This is a flawed interpretation of what is being said. You are that. There is nothing to abide in. If you conceive of this as some state or special focus, you may be getting all wrapped up in needless concepts and stressing out the mind unnecessarily. That may be the root of your problem - going round and round in conceptual thoughts!"

"If you are awareness and the separate 'I' is not, who should try to stay in awareness? Knock this concept out with a bit of clear seeing."

BrianEleven SG

Thanks for the response. I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.

I think that I'm approaching "presence" as a sort of "mindfulness" and am trying to constantly remain aware of the feeling of being. Is this an error on my part? or am I misunderstanding the 'seeing through and dissolving the need to abide'. part of your statement?

My expereince is that maintaining contact with the feeling of presence is either a struggle requiring effort, or sometimes, it is constant and effortless. Perhaps to clarify, I'm using the the phrase "feeling of being" to describe the slight energetic charge that I feel within the body. This is similar to what I've done in the past and thought of as "mindfulness of the body". This is the feeling that arises in response to the question "Who Am I?"

Also could you clarify the following:

" If you practice like Ramana Maharshi, it is through attaining mastery of samadhi. This however is not necessary and is far from effortless, but for those I AM practitioners it is natural they may think that samadhi of abidance in Self 24/7 is the way to go"

In particular the " samadhi of abidance in Self" is confusing me.

Thank you for your patience and guidance, it is very much appreciated.

Metta,

Brian.

An Eternal Now SG

No, Presence has nothing to do with mindfulness. Luminosity is always never lost regardless of whether you are mindful or not. Self-realization means realizing what you already are. It is the Who that is aware of everything including your body. I wouldn't say it is mindfulness of the body, but more like the source of the body and thoughts. This light is upstream from everything and is impersonal and has no stake in anything including the birth and death of your mind and body, so the practice is to 'trace the radiance back to its source'. So continue inquiring Who am I?

If you abide in I AM, you can get into some sort of absorption. There is savikalpa, nirvikalpa, and sahaja samadhi for example, elaborated by Ramana Maharshi. It's discussed in Seraphis's thread in DhO.

An Eternal Now SG

But the body can be a doorway: http://spiritlibrary.com/eckhart-tolle/the-inner-body

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